Sunday, July 08, 2007

Dissident group uses Liverpool Catholic Chaplaincy

Update: Archbishop Kelly has prevented this event from taking place. Congratulations to him! Messages of support to him would be welcome, especially local ones. See the local newspaper article here.

Protests, please, to the Archbishop Kelly of Liverpool: After protests about the last use of the Chaplaincy by Quest, the Archbishop claimed that it would not happen again. Note that Quest, nominally a group for Catholic homosexuals, openly dissents from Church teaching on a range of issues surrounding sexuality, and for this reason was removed from the Catholic Directory in 1998. The Vatican has made it clear that dissident groups must not be allowed the use of Church property, on account of the confusion and scandal this causes: see below.

From Independent Catholic News: Liverpool: Quest barbecue Saturday 7 July 3pm. The joint Quest Liverpool and Quest Manchester BBQ takes place at the Liverpool University Chaplaincy on Catherine Street. We will have Mass in the Chaplaincy, followed by a BBQ in the beautiful Spanish style garden. Disposable BBQ's will be provided, (for meat eaters and for vegetarians) as will rolls, sauces, salad and soft drinks. PLEASE BRING YOUR OWN BBQ FOOD AND ANY WINES/BEERS ETC. WITH YOU, AS THESE WILL NOT BE PROVIDED. For more information please email Anne-Marie at with your contact details.

Relevant here is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 'The Pastoral Care of the Homosexual Person', 1986:
(See here for the full text.)

17: 'All support should be withdrawn from any organisations which seek to undermine the teaching of the Church, which are ambiguous about it, or which neglect it entirely. Such support, or even the semblance of such support, can be gravely misinterpreted. Special attention should be given to the practice of scheduling religious services and the to the use of Church buildings by these groups, including the facilities of Catholic schools and colleges. To some, such permission to use Church property may seem only just and charitable; but in reality it is contradictory to the purpose for which these institutions were founded, it is misleading and often scandalous...'


John Kearney said...

I looked into where there was a story of a priest and his parish attending a gay pride march in San Francisco. There was a four minute vide of this event. There were men parading nude, and women walaking bare. It paraded lust, indecency, and vile pornography as though it was something to be proud of. If the Archbishop of Liverpool and the Cardinal of Westminster supports such groups then they do support this degradation of the human body. Certainly the Cardinal has much to answer for. I was futher appalled that many onlookers had brought their children. AND STILL CATHOLIC AGENCIES GIVE CHILDREN TO GAYS FOR ADOPTION. IT IS SICK. said...

I did as you ask [above], email Archbishop Kelly today.
He replied to the effect that this event would not be happening.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely John!

onthesideoftheangels said...

How about getting off your moral high-horse and actually start thinking about what you're saying; because it is most definitely homophobic and contrary to the teachings of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church !

a] It is irrefutable that all homosexual acts [physical or mental] are intrinsically morally disordered and if willed to that end are gravely sinful - The reason for such is because of the intrinsic impossibility of openness to life within the acts by their very nature - not due the physical 'ins and outs'; which are all acceptable as foreplay for a married heterosexual couple providing there is 'intromissio et ejaculatio in vagina' during the lovemaking and all acts are of the intent to promote the unifying nature of the act.

b] Homosexuality-in-itself is morally disordered in three ways.
a] naturally [i.e. practically no act of will involved]
b] personally [virtually complete free-volition]
c] nurture/socio culturally [collective culpability]

Now only in the second and third aspects of this moral disorder is there anything even encroaching upon sin, and only in the second could it be considered that the homosexuality-in-itself [being an act of will] is grave matter.

Given these considerations it is perfectly feasible for a celibate catholic homosexual to lead a perfectly virtuous life in Christ and within the fold of the church.

I know more than a few celibate catholic homosexuals [lay and cleric] who have led chaste and morally righteous lives regarding their sexual predilections ; and for you to suggest that axiomatically homosexuality can be condemned outright as SICK says more about you and your misunderstanding [or should I say ignorance ?] of the issue and the church's teaching and pastoral guidelines.

I don't support Quest, but I find the Archdiocese's pastoral negligence regarding homosexuals reprehensible -in a community of such a size, Quest should be both unnecessary and obsolete, and a truly authentically catholic support group for celibate homosexuals should be in actuation.

As for adoption by a single homosexual man or woman ?
Bow your head in shame that you should deprive a child of a loving parent ! admittedly it is not the ideal but it is infinitely better than the reprehensible negligence, isolation, loneliness and indifference a child has to endure 'in care'.

To equivocate pathetic flagrant infantile pornographic displays of defiance by the misguided as the same mental and social mindframe as a catholic celibate homosexual is fallacious and open to sheer mendacity; it is not worthy of any of us.

Webmaster said...

I allow this last comment with some reluctance. Although the positive points are well made, the commentator seems to be accusing John Kearney of saying things he has not said, at least not here. No personal attacks on this website, please.

There is a genuine support group for homosxual Catholics; see the 'links'.

onthesideoftheangels said...

I apologise if I misunderstood the gentleman's posting; but when he made a statement in block capitals, followed by an 'It is sick'; ostensibly it appears that he disagrees with more than is conducive to catholic teaching.
Obviously from your 'point of order' I was presumptuous and wrong and am truly sorry for it; but please bear in mind that I was attacking the statement I incorrectly inferred; not the person himself.

Patricia said...

I am appalled at the comment by onthesideoftheangels (which this person most certainly is NOT). As the webmaster says, some points are well made but overall it is painfully clear that this person does not understand the nature of Catholicism and the sheer depravity of homosexual activity, otherwise he/she would not consider placing a child in the care of a homosexual whether male or female. Drop the "loving parent" nonsense. Love must be ordered to conform to God's will and no-one truly loves who so blatantly flouts God's natural law. But I really just wanted to ask this question, which I keep asking and never get answered. Why should homosexuals have any special "pastoral care"? If any layperson or priest has homosexual leanings, but it truly living a chaste life, no-one should know their leanings any more than anyone should know if some unmarried person is disappointed in their state of life because all such sufferings should constitute a sacrifice to be offered in silent contemplation in union with the unimaginable sufferings which Christ endured for the sake of our salvation. There is no particular pastoral support for those with leanings to steal (Kleptomaniacs) or for those of us tempted in various other ways, so why should there be support systems for homosexuals, when, in the very nature of things, such gatherings might be an occasion of sin for them? Yipes! Gimme STRENGTH!

Anonymous said...

I'm amazed that Patricia thinks that this particular group is unique in receiving 'pastoral care'. In my parish we have an alcohol support group, a single mother support group, a mother and toddler support group and a support group for parents of children with special needs. It's perfectl;y right and proper for homosexuals to have a support group provided that the aim is to help the members of the group lead a life consistent with the teaching of the Church.

On the side of the angels said...

Ok, thankyou for your judgement of my character Patricia - I am highly aware of my shortcomings and sinfulness; but it's nice to be brought to task once in a while.

I'm sorry but it is quite obvious that you have not read what I said about homosexual acts - I repeat that they are intrinsically morally disordered and if willed for their own intent can be gravely sinful.

You're equivocating homosexuality with homosexual acts [including the ones committed by a significant amount of heterosexuals] - I know more than a handful of celibate, chaste, even virginal homosexual men and women who are better catholics than I could ever be [some of them being members of the clergy - a couple remaining pure and celibate unto death! [which is more than can be said for a few heterosexual priests I know] and I would be proud [should anything happen to me or my wife] for them to adopt my children. Their love for God has subsumed any of their predilections and they have precluded themselves from any physical or sexually intimate relations - and have done so with the strong love and support of friends , family and parishioners.
They have not flouted God's natural law: for some reason original sin has given them another burden to bear and most bear it with a strength and fortitude I am humbled by witnessing.
They require pastoral care for their extraordinary circumstances, in the same way alcoholics and kleptomaniacs and the mentally ill and the divorced require extraordinary support and love - we are commanded by Christ to love our neighbour [assuredly never condoning any sinful nature] but this love is unconditional.

I understand where you're coming from , especially in a world where outrage and stonewall assault the church daily with an agenda where profligate multi-partnered homosexual activity should be considered a norm and a right and anyone who is morally opposed to any aspect of this is denounced as evil and homophobic, and they equivocate their use of condoms with those dying of AIDS in africa and castigate us as conspiring in genocide.

But we are not talking about sexually promiscuous or even active homosexuals - we are talking about celibate chaste catholics who are aspiring to a perfection amidst their limitations which deprive them of a close loving partner - how would you feel if you were in those crcumstances ? willingly accepting that because of your condition you could never marry or have children of your own?

You say 'gimme strength!' I pray we all receive the grace of strength, the celibate homosexuals to persevere and not become disheartened or disillusioned, and strength for the rest of us to both understand their situation and aid them on their journey.

I too am enraged at the moral laxity of some corners of the church in condoning homosexual activity among their homosexual members and denouncing the rest of the church as insensitive and morally pietistic and overscrupulous - they are in grave error and as His Holiness has said they give no assistance or authentic charitable care to those in their auspices by merely condoning that which is sinful.

But we have to be very careful that we do not neglect, injure or inflict further pain on any homosexuals we have a moral duty to care for and love.

Pope Leo XIII's Prayer to St Michael

Holy Michael, Archangel, defend us in the day of battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, thrust down to Hell Satan, and all wicked spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen